So she talks about how she found out she was pregnant, and how she got pregnant, and all that at the age of 44, naturally. She also talks about early trimester, first-trimester spotting, which a lot of us go through, and I've seen a lot of those posts in a group as well, so she talks about what it meant, what it didn't mean. Ultimately she had a healthy baby boy, so it did not mean a miscarriage, she does talk about that. She also had a history of cervical polyps, and how that played into the pregnancy as well.
And one of the interesting things is she talked about why she decided to forgo the genetic testing, which again, a lot of us are recommended to do either by our OB, or a specialist, especially being pregnant after 40. And she talks about her decision to do that and why, but she also talks about anxiety. I know that's something again, a lot of us do go through, especially at our age, if we've experienced previous miscarriages. Also, the anxiety of possibly miscarrying, but she also had to deal with the passing of her mother during the pregnancy, as well, so she speaks about how she got through all of that.
Also speaking about the benefits of getting pregnant and having a baby after 40, and how her husband actually joined in the same sentiment of having a baby after 40; and I kind of chime in on that as well. My take on it since, I also had a child at 25, and then she kind of concludes with how she prepared herself for a natural birth, and then also the comparison of going into labor naturally versus being induced, which a lot of us are induced, again, because of our advanced age. Our doctors suggest a lot of times us being induced, maybe a week or two before our actual due date. It's a really good episode, so thank you for joining, and we welcome Heather. Heather thanks for joining us today.
Heather:
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for starting the Facebook group. It was a place of great encouragement to me during my pregnancy.
Michelle:
I'm glad we're able to do that, and you're also able to give some advice as well. So Heather is a new mom again. She just had another son about seven weeks ago, named Will. Congratulations on having your fourth child, right?
Heather:
Yep, fourth son, we have four boys.
Michelle:
Four sons, so that's awesome. So okay, first of all, let's start, how old are you currently?
Heather:
I'm 45.
Michelle:
45.
Heather:
45, yep.
Michelle:
So were you 44 or 45 when you got pregnant with Will?
Heather:
I was 44 when I got pregnant.
Michelle:
Okay.
Heather:
Yeah.
Michelle:
And how old are your other children?
Heather:
So my oldest son is 14, and I have a 13, and a 10-year-old. So three boys, one in high school, one in junior high, and one in middle school.
Michelle:
Wow, you have them kind of close together, so you were on a roll for a minute.
Heather:
We had three in four years.
Michelle:
Wow, so okay, so you had the gap between your 10-year-old and Will. What were you doing as far as preventing pregnancy? Were you trying, not trying, and how did Will come about?
Heather:
We definitely were not trying. With all four pregnancies, I have really bad morning sickness, so anytime I see a post on morning sickness, I comment because I know how awful it is to be sick for weeks on end. And so we had our third son, Clark, and we just decided that it would be really difficult for me to be out of commission and not be able to take care of my kids because I was so sick. Actually, back then, 10 years ago, we interviewed probably a dozen couples and asked them, "Are you glad you quit? Do you wish you would have had more kids? Did you do anything permanent?”
It took like two years to decide if we were done with three kids; we kind of came to the conclusion that we're okay being done. Actually, twice, I scheduled for my husband to have a vasectomy, and twice, he canceled it. And so we just decided at that point that we didn't feel comfortable doing anything permanent, but we weren't planning on having more children. So for a decade, and when people would say, "Are you going to go for a girl"? That's normally what I would hear. I would say, "We don't plan on have any more kids, but if God gives us one, it will be a surprise; and so we definitely were not trying for a fourth pregnancy. So it definitely was probably the biggest surprise of my life the day that I got my pregnancy test.
Michelle:
Were you doing anything to prevent pregnancy, or were you not active around?
Heather:
We were using protection. For the last decade, we were, and then my husband went to visit his mother, and he came home and he's like, "Did you ovulate while I was gone"? This is getting really personal with all your ladies here. I was like, "I think I did", and he's like, "Okay, so we should be safe then"? I said, "Well, I think so". Because my…things started to change in my cycle, so I figured it was Menopause. I was starting to have different, not as predictable cycles. And he's like, "Well", I was like, "Well, I think we should be okay", and then, two weeks later, I was like, "Man, my period is late. I must be, this must be, you know..."
I also thought I'm 44. And it's very difficult to get pregnant naturally all on your own at 44, so I figured we were in the clear, but two weeks later, my cycle was late. And I got a negative pregnancy test, and then I got a positive one later that week, so it was definitely a surprise.
Michelle:
Okay, so I've done a previous podcast, you guys will probably hear, of a young lady who, they were practicing natural family planning. So it was the actual term that she used and so I kind of learned about that, which is something similar, they mature speaking of just, not being active around certain times, trying to prevent...
Heather:
Making sure we're good.
Michelle:
Alright, so Will was a surprise, but a welcome surprise it sounds like. So, just tell me a little bit about the differences in your pregnancies, the pregnancy with Will versus your prior pregnancies with your older boys.
Heather:
Yeah, I mean, pregnancy-wise, it's funny, I think that we hear about all this stuff after 35, your advanced maternal age. I know in the group, I'm one of the older ones, being 45. I know there's a couple who are older than me, but I felt like my pregnancy wasn't all that different. I actually felt less pain in this pregnancy, which is strange, but it's probably because I wasn't chasing toddlers. And I actually had teenage boys who could help me and take care of me, and because I was sick for a good chunk of my first, and into my second trimester, and basically lay around. They took care of me, which was wonderful, and my husband took care of me.
I look back at the years that I was pregnant, especially with my number two and number three; I was taking care of other kids at the time. So pregnancy-wise, for me, it wasn't too terribly different. Unfortunately, I still had the morning sickness, but even towards the end, I remember saying to my husband, "I feel like I should be more uncomfortable than I am. I'm uncomfortable, but you hear all these things about being in your 40s, and how much harder it's going to be".
Obviously, the doctor treated me as an advanced maternal pregnant mama, and so I did do more stress tests that he had me do at the end of my pregnancy, but he was also pretty laid back, which was kind of nice. He was a pretty laid-back doctor, even though I was 45. His wife was in her 40s when they had their first child. So he kind of right from the very first appointment was like, "Listen, I went down this road with my wife". He just was more comfortable with me. But I mean, he wasn't like insistent on all the testing and stuff. So physically wise, though, it wasn't too terribly different, probably even easier because I didn't have to carry toddlers around.
Michelle:
Right, okay, so how long did your morning sickness last?
Heather:
I threw up the last time at 18 weeks. I was on Diclegis which I do recommend Diclegis, it was great, it was it helped a lot. It helped me function and not just lay around all day.
Michelle:
Okay, now, is that something that was prescribed from your OB, or is it something found on your own, or is that over the counter?
Heather:
It was prescribed by my doctor. He said it was the newer medicine than what was out when I had my children previously; so I did notice it worked. It did help me function, and it reduced the throwing up, which was nice.
Michelle:
Okay, so I think I have the spelling, just correct me if I'm wrong, so it was like, Diclegis, is that correct?
Heather:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle:
For anyone who wants to kind of bring it up to their doctors that are experiencing really bad morning sickness. So, you kind of noticed, right away when you started taking that that the nauseousness kind of subsided?
Heather:
Yeah, it definitely helped. I mean, for me, morning sickness, and I know, I'm probably a little bit more of the extreme case, but thankfully, I've never been hospitalized or anything for it. But I mean, I would tell people, "I take a shower, and then I need a four-hour nap", you know, just nauseous, tired, sick, pretty much nauseous, nonstop. So whenever I see women posting about that on the board, I'm like, "I totally understand. I'm so sorry, you know that you have to go through it".
But I will tell you, my boys, my kids, we home-school our boys. They're with me all the time. They don't go to school, they're with me. I mean, they go to school, they just school at home, and for them to see that process, and be able to help around the house, and help take care of me. I told them many times, "You guys are going to be amazing husbands because you watched... like an extreme morning sickness case. Like, you know, "You have so much compassion for your wife if she's sick at all". They watched the whole process of pregnancy, which was actually really kind of fun for me to watch them experience my pregnancy.
Michelle:
Yeah, that's awesome because normally you would think that maybe girls will be more sympathetic and helping out and all that, and boys are usually kind of laid back and in their own little world. So that's great that and even as teenagers, and preteens that they were there to help and help out in the house, and all that, so Lucky you. 12:38 [cross talking]
Heather:
And they adore their little brother. I mean, just a few minutes ago, my son walked in, my middle my 13-year-old, he's like, and ‘Can I just go watch him sleep while he’s sleeping right now .
Michelle:
That is so sweet.
Heather:
It's just so cute to watch him sleep, yeah.
Michelle:
Okay, so did you have any previous miscarriages prior to getting pregnant with Will?
Heather:
I miscarried our very first baby. And it's kind of, I don't know, life felt full circle at this moment, but we miscarried16 years ago, our first baby. I was 10 weeks pregnant, and then two months later got pregnant with our oldest son, Myles. But my first pregnancy, my due date was December 9th, and that was the day Will was born, it was December 9th.
Michelle:
WOW!
Heather:
So it just felt like this, I don't know, a full-circle moment of our first baby to this bonus baby that we were given. His name his Will. Because the first day I tossed the pregnancy test at my husband, I said, "You got me pregnant". The first thing he said, we’re people of faith", and he just said, "This is God's will for us. I mean, we've always said if God wants to surprise us, he can". And so we will just say that like this has to be God's will; because this was not our plan. So when we found out it was a boy, I was just like, Willll, of course, that's his name, Will. That's just his name because he was God's will for us.
Michelle:
Right, that's awesome. So I did see, going back through some posts that you had some early pregnancy spotting.
Heather:
I did.
Michelle:
What was that, or did it cause concern, or did it go away? Did you find out what it was or was it something natural?
Heather:
Yeah, I spotted with, so I've had five pregnancies obviously, with the one we miscarried. I spotted with four of those pregnancies. So the only one I didn't spot was our son, Luke, but I never found out what it was, but it was very scary when I did because it was week. I think it was week seven to eight that I spotted. I spotted and then I threw up, so I was like, "Okay, I'm probably still pregnant because I'm throwing up still, but I never found out what it was. With my son Myles, I spotted with him, and I had cervical polyps that kind of erupted, and then I had that same thing with my son, Clark, and so I just assumed that probably was similar to Will's pregnancy.
Michelle:
Okay, and then is it just something that just goes away like on its own, or did you rest any anymore?
Heather:
No, I mean, I sort of put myself on bed rest because it was so similar to what had happened with Myles. With Myles, I had an ultrasound, and they said, "You need to be on partial bed rest". So I just kind of lay low, you know, didn't lift anything heavy. But I didn't go to the doctor to be diagnosed, I was just like, "Oh, this is kind of what happened with my pregnancy with Myles, this is what they said", and so I just sort of followed that same line of thinking.
Michelle:
Okay, so did you have any other issues, any events that happened while you were pregnant with Will?
Heather:
So with my pregnancy, my mother passed away suddenly, and unexpectedly in August, and so I was 23 weeks pregnant, and that really brought out a lot of anxiety. I was already struggling with anxiety in my pregnancy. I think, just a lot of unknowns, and I think when you have a previous miscarriage, it's easy to feel nervous about your pregnancies. And I think I felt more nervous for my older boys. My husband and I have experienced a miscarriage. We know what it's like, but for them, I think I felt if we miscarried the weight of what they would feel. It would be hard as a mom to walk your kids through something like that, and then when my mom passed away unexpectedly, my anxiety increased. There was a business trip that I ended up canceling because I just knew that I couldn't stress my body out, and so that was anxiety. I felt a lot of anxiety in my pregnancy, more than my other ones. That's probably the biggest thing that was different, was just anxiety, and I think at of women feel that way.
Michelle:
Yes, I'm sorry to hear about your mom, I know, that's never easy. It's especially hard when you're pregnant, trying to kind of keep low and balanced, so I'm sorry to hear about that. So I assume that she knew that you were pregnant.
Heather:
She did.
Michelle:
Was she excited about it?
Heather:
Oh, she was so excited. She was the first person we called when we found out we were pregnant. And again, for 10 years, we have said, "We're not going to have another one. If God gives us one, it's going to be a surprise". And so this was her 14th grandchild. It was the 14th grandchild, so I just said, "Are you ready for number 14"? And she's like, "You guys are getting a puppy"? I was like, "No mom, we're pregnant". She is like, "No, you're not, no you're not", I was like, "Yeah". Even the week before she died, she came over, she is like, "I just still can't believe you're going to have a baby like that. I still can't believe it". And the Wednesday before she passed away, she came over and brought home an outfit for the baby to wear home, so that was really special to have that. Will was real active that day, and so she got to feel the baby kick.
Yeah, as we've moved through the grief process, having a baby; obviously has been such joy through the holidays. For my dad to come over and hold them and coddle him, it just has been a godsend.
And what's really strange is that my mom, her mother, my grandma lost her dad, so my great grandfather, when my grandma was pregnant with her fifth baby, and like two or three times, my mom said, "Grandma needed my uncle to help her through that grief". And it's just weird that she said that, because that's exactly how I feel about Will is that he has helped us through the grieving process, and just has been such a spot of joy because he is such a sweet baby through the grieving process.
I think one thing, when that happened, when I lost my mom, well, even when I found out I was pregnant, and a lot of women who maybe have two sets of kids, like you have one early, you have an older daughter and then the younger kids, is you feel like you're caught between two different worlds. Like all of my friends that I raised my kids with, they're all talking about college and their kids, getting married. There's this whole, we're all reaching our upper 40s, 50s, and so our focus is becoming empty nesters, and then the other crowd of all these pregnant mamas that I have in my life are all in their 20s. They're young moms and they've got other kids in there, so I felt I was caught between two different worlds. And I think that was that's probably the strangest thing about this whole experience is feeling like I don't fit. So finding the pregnancy page on Facebook and meeting other moms who are in the same predicament that I'm in, it's like, "Okay, I'm not a unicorn; there are other women like me. There's other women who have teenagers and are lactating".
Michelle:
Right, I thought that I had probably one of the biggest gaps, but I found out that I didn't through the group.
Heather:
Yeah.
Michelle:
Because my daughter is 17, she's graduating from high school, at the end of this year, and then we'll be expecting another one at the end of February, so, yes, it is; and we're talking college. I have an 18 month old as well, so it's like, I’m talking college with one, trying to teach one how to drive, and trying to teach one how to walk. It's totally different.
Heather:
But it has its fun, because I had a girlfriend messaged me a couple weeks ago, and their kids are very similar in age with mine, she's like, "You're not going to believe this, but we're having a bonus baby, too". I was like, "Oh, I am not alone. I actually know someone in real life who is going to go through this with me"
Michelle:
Right, right, yeah and I found that very interesting as well; because when I started taking my 18 month old, just like do things with him in the community. We have really good library system here where they have classes and little things for kids to do, so we had a baby in me, and we would go there. And all the other moms, they were like in their 20s or maybe early 30s, so yeah, it's like you're totally on different pages altogether. I have to say that I have formed some bonds with a couple of them, so that's been pretty good. But yeah, it's definitely kind of like being...I used to be the...I was the youngest one in my group of friends.
Heather:
That's funny, yeah.
Michelle:
But now I'm like, the only old lady.
Heather:
I know. We have a mom's group at our church, and I'm a mentor, mom. So I'm like one of the mentors. And I'm also in the trenches with them, and it's kind of a fun, cool experience. For one, you know how fast it all goes, and I know that Will will grow up extremely quickly. And to savor the moments more, I mean, my husband has said, "I feel bad for people in their 40s who don't have kids, because this is like, you get a second chance at parenting, and experiencing all those joys of parenting". I feel like when I had three kids so close, it was just survival, like, I just got to get through this, we're with Will, and we feel like man, we just get to enjoy it because we know he's going to be a teenager in no time.
Michelle:
Right, and I was the same way; I say now, "It was a blur having my daughter when I was 25". I actually had her after my first year of law school. So when I had her I started working full time again, at six weeks when I started law school again in five weeks.
Heather:
Wow!
Michelle:
So when I was trying to nurse at the same time, it was it was a total blur. Like the first couple years, it was a blur, and I ended up, at the end of the first year, I ended up leaving a job and just going to law school full time. And I was like, "I just I can't maintain this". I was going crazy, but yeah, definitely went by quickly. Because you're on a mission to achieve certain things career wise, or whatever you have going on, so yeah, I can definitely relate to that.
And, with Levi, my 18 month old, I'm able to see so much more that I felt like I just missed, between the walking and the first words, I'm awake.
Heather:
Yes.
Michelle:
And even go in to this thing, go into the mommy and me thing every week, I wasn't able to do that wasn't my daughter because I was in school full time, so I'm definitely glad I'm able to do that. I'm in a place in my career where I can dictate my own schedule and do all that. It's definitely different having a baby when in you’re 20s, maybe 30s we're still trying to establish, and then in your 40s.
Heather:
Right, I agree, and the same thing with us as we're so much more established financially and, just as being in your 40s growing up, and yeah, it feels like a totally different experience this time around in a really fun way, like a fun experience.
Michelle:
Yeah, so okay, so I know you have the 10 year old. So one of the things that were different for me, like when I had my daughter, they didn't have gender reveal parties. 24:44 [cross talking] 10 year olds. I was like they should have all this new age stuff, and they have the stroller and it's also a car seat, you pull it up and put it in. Did you experience like some things those things that are available now for the baby that weren't available back when you had your other children?
Heather:
Yeah, so much has changed in 10 years, like so much has changed in the decade. Gender reveals were not popular 10 years ago. Those parties weren't, but just even like…um, so much has changed. What's funny, though, is the first time I put them in his car seat, I was like, "Wait, how do you make the strap tighter? How do you loosen the strap"? I was like, "I've done this, I did this". For like seven years, I had these car seats on and off, you know, sort of feel like, "How does this work", but it is been, you know, and then there's the silicone breast pump that all the moms use. And for the longest time I couldn't figure out how to use it, and finally, I watched a video from one of my young mommy friends who showed how to use it, I was like, "Oh, that's how you do it. That's how it works".
Michelle:
That's funny.
Heather:
Yeah, but also, social media wasn't popular 10 years ago. I mean, there was not the social media pressure on moms. I feel like there can be on moms to have the matching robe, and the photographer who comes to the hospital. It can make you feel like, well, if I don't do all those things, then I must be missing out.
And I've noticed to be very careful what I post on my Facebook page about mothering because everybody has an opinion, co-sleeping, not co-sleeping, sleep training, not sleep training, like, when to pee, when to wean, when to carry the baby all the time, keep the baby down all the time. It's like, okay, I'm just going to not say anything publicly about what I'm doing with my baby and just show cute pictures of my baby.
Michelle:
That's the best way to get encouragement, and feel good at this point.
Heather:
Right.
Michelle:
That's crazy, so you mentioned earlier that you were struggling with anxiety a little bit before your mom passed, and then it increased after. I'm sure some of it had to do with the fact that maybe, I don't know if it's miscarriages fears or not, but as I was telling you earlier I miscarried earlier last year. I got pregnant February, miscarried in April, and got pregnant two months later. But I even say like to this day, I'm 35 weeks pregnant now. Again, every time I go to the bathroom, I'm looking. I did not do that with my son. I was more aware of the risk, but now, and especially after miscarrying. When it happens to you, you're kind of like, on edge. It's kind of like, okay, I'm like, I'm done. And I'm not an anxious person, generally speaking, overall, but, there are things that I haven't even shared with my husband; because I don't want them to think, I don't want my daughter and my husband to think that I am in a worry wart, or they have to worry about me.
Heather:
Right.
Michelle:
Yeah. I mean, I just, I think about it every time.
Heather:
I know, I did that with every pregnancy because we miscarried our first, and I thought this time, I'm like, "I'm going to be more calm this time", but no, I wasn't. And I think then after my mom passed away, the thought of another tragedy felt very overwhelming. The thought of losing a pregnancy and my mother in one year felt that would be so much to take, but he was born fine and healthy. He's so healthy, and that was another thing, we didn't do all the testing. And again, I think that's a personal decision on what testing you do, or don't do with your pregnancy. But our doctor was pretty, like, "There's a one in 20% chance that something can be wrong at your age". We just like we're just not comfortable doing all of these tests, but he's really healthy. He was like, the doctors, like, "This kid is really healthy". I'm like, "Yeah, I've got healthy eggs".
Michelle:
Okay, good, so did you do any testing at all, or you just for went all of them?
Heather:
We did an ultrasound at 20 weeks or 24 weeks, we did the ultrasound, and we didn't do any other genetic testing on him before now, we didn't do any.
Michelle:
Okay, did if you went to maternal fetal specialists during the pregnancy?
Heather:
No, I did not. I just went to an OB-GYN. What's funny is, the doctor who delivered my first two, he retired before my third, and then the doctor that I had with my third retired before my fourth; I'm like, "Everybody's retired".
Michelle:
Right.
Heather:
We have a new doctor that we went to.
Michelle:
Okay, so did that doctor is not suggest it, or was it not something that you wanted to do?
Heather:
He suggested it and was pretty, but he understood. I mean, he understood why people choose not to, but he did lay it on thick like, "There's a one in 20% chance". We're like we understand what we're weighing out the options that were that we're doing, so it wasn't just a choice for us. It would have felt more stressful to me. So I guess I should say my sister had two false test results in her pregnancies, so her last two kids, and she has four boys as well. Her last two boys are both younger than my 10 year old. So she had two pregnancies when I thought I was done. Her third son, they told her that he had a cystic hygroma and was going to die before 23 weeks gestation. It turns out, he's nine, he's healthy, and he’s fine. Her fourth boy, they said was going to have Down syndrome, and kidney issues. He was born, he doesn't have Down syndrome, and he peed all over her when he was born. And they said, "Oh, well, I guess we don't have to take him to surgery". And so I think in my head, I had experienced those things with her, and it just stressed her out.
I mean, obviously, we get a test result like that, and then they both were negative. I think in my thinking, I was like, "I don't want to walk that path of getting a false positive. And so for us, that was probably the main reason why I was just watching my sister walk through that, especially with her third son. I mean, it was just; it was awful, because any moment, I was expecting a phone call, and her telling me she was in labor at 20 weeks. It was just a very stressful experience for all of us who were supporting her. And I thought I don't want to stress my body out that much and sit around and wait for the results. And I think I just wanted to bury my head, and if something was wrong, we would figure it out.
Michelle:
Right, yeah, I understand that. I know, with both of my post 40 pregnancies, I went to a specialist pretty early on. This last one, they diagnosed me with having gestational diabetes. So I've been going to a specialist, probably since like, around 12, 13 weeks, something like that.
Heather:
I did do my gestational test, so I did do that; they had me do it at 13 weeks.
Michelle:
Okay; and how did that work out for you? Because I know a lot of times, I'm starting to see like a lot of people, they just don't make it past the first one. They fail the first one, and then in the second or third one, it's like hit or miss.
Heather:
I failed the first one, and I went back and I passed the three hour one.
Michelle:
Okay, alright.
Heather:
But my mom was type two diabetic, so I mean, I tested my sugar all throughout my pregnancy, just to make sure nothing changed.
Michelle:
Okay, so the doctor suggested that you just kind of did that on your own, the testing.
Heather:
He forgot to retest my gestational. He forgot to retest me at 27 weeks, and by then, I was 36 weeks and I was like, "Ah, I've been taking my..." I was like, "I'm not going to go through it again because I've been keeping track of my own sugars and stuff like that".
Michelle:
Okay, so when you say you tested it once a week, did you do it just one time literally one time, or was it like a day a week that you would test several times?
Heather:
Oh, it was just one time in the morning.
Michelle:
Okay.
Heather:
I would just test in the morning. So actually, at the end of my pregnancy, sugar seemed to make me more anxious, it would make my heart rate, so I just went off all sugar all together anyway...
Michelle:
Okay.
Heather:
For the last, I don't know, 10 weeks of my pregnancy. I noticed like caffeine and sugar made my heart race, which made me more anxious; so for my anxiety, I went off sugar.
Michelle:
Okay, alright, that makes sense. So I saw in some of the comments you posted that you also had a fibroid that came up and was an issue, can you just tell a little bit about that experience, and what happened?
Heather:
Yeah, I had no idea that I had it. We found it at the 24 week ultrasound; it is when they found it. The doctor wasn't too concerned about it, but he did want to re-do an ultrasound at, I think I was 35 weeks to make sure that the fibroid was not in the way of the baby being delivered. I wanted a natural vaginal delivery, and so he had just said, "Let's make sure it's not in the way and if it is, and you are in labor, and you're not progressing, you know, we'll just do a C section". It did not pose a problem in my labor, which was nice, because then I just had a natural vaginal delivery.
I didn't make my six week appointment in time, so I go back next Monday, and he's going to retest, and see where that is and what's going on with the fibroid. But like I said, I didn't even know I had it, but I did have heavy periods, which can be a sign of a fibroid. So I'm like, "Oh, maybe that's why I had issues in the last couple of years with a little bit heavier of a cycle". I will tell you, the one thing I was so excited, I missed breastfeeding. I love breastfeeding, and I think it's just a wonderful thing. When I found out that I was pregnant, that's the thing I was most excited about. I was like, "Oh, I get to nurse another baby".
Michelle:
How long do you plan on nursing?
Heather:
Well, I hope to nurse at least until he's one, but then after that, I'll probably just pump and give it to him in Sippy cups or I don't know. I don't plan on physically nursing, but I probably will keep my milk supply up until he's about 18 months.
Michelle:
Alright, good deal. So I want to kind of talk about your delivery plan. I know you're really big into doing things naturally. So initially, with Will was the plan to go vaginal, medication, no medication, hospital, another location?
Heather:
Yeah, our original thought was, I had two homebirths on purpose, both with my first doctor, and then my third one was at a hospital, but it was all natural, and of course, that was the hope with Will. And originally, in the state of Illinois, where I live, it's illegal to have a home birth without a doctor present. And I don't know any doctors who do homebirth anymore in Illinois, just because the malpractice rate is too high.
So anyhow, in Wisconsin, which I live close to Wisconsin, there are a lot of midwives and birthing centers, and so we looked at a birthing center, but it was like an hour and 20 minutes away. And the more we thought about it, the more I was like, "I'm not comfortable of delivering in December, an hour and a half away". I mean, we could have a blizzard, and I would be stuck, maybe not being able to get there, so then we decided to go with just a traditional doctor at a hospital. Of course, we expressed to him our desire for as natural as possible, with the least amount of intervention. And he actually was like, "I don't plan on inducing you". He said, "I know they induce, after 35 they like to induce you at 39 weeks, he said, but I'll let you go to 40 weeks". And so he did, he waited and I induced at 40 weeks and one day, which I had never been induced before, but thankfully, my labor was only three and a half hours long. Let's see what time, 10 o'clock in the morning he started Pitocin, and at one o'clock the contractions were so painful. I said to my husband, "I have to get an epidural. I cannot, I am ready to pull my hair out".
Pitocin induced contractions feel completely different than natural contractions, and they're just a lot more painful. So I told the nurse, "Call in the epidural, and you can you turn the Pitocin down, like give my body a break", so she did. She called for the doctor to come to administer the epidural, and 13 minutes later Will was born. So I never had that epidural because he came; and I don't know if it's because she turned the Pitocin down and my body could kind of breathe for a second. But he was born facing sideways, he wasn't born facing down, right, they're supposed to be down. He facing sideways, so I think he just was kind of twisted in there, and then as soon as my body relaxed because I wasn't in as much pain, he shifted and then boom, I went from seven to delivery in 13 minutes.
Michelle:
I am jealous. I hope you sprinkle some of that on me for this one.
Heather:
I'll try.
Michelle:
My first one, my daughter, I went on with her, although that was not the plan necessarily. I had a midwife with her, and I said, "Well, I don't know, you know how it's going to be. I'll go as far as I can. Any medication out, I'll take it", and then I got there and after about 12 hours, I was, "I need medication", but they wouldn't give it to me.
Heather:
Oh, no!
Michelle:
Because there were women who were coming into a more dilated than me, and so I was like in a triage area, and they couldn't give it to me, so I just ended up having her naturally. It wasn't planned, but it is what it is.
Heather:
Wow!
Michelle:
They induce, basically the day before his due date because I said he was measuring small and they went ahead, so they gave me the Pitocin, but I didn't realize until just actually recently. Just in a reading, reading through some of the post that the Pitocin contractions are way more painful, than just regular contractions. And I just remember, I was going through it for, like five hours with the Pitocin. I was blaming Eve and every one. I did end up getting an epidural though.
Heather:
I was thinking, yeah, I was dilating a centimeter an hour. And I thought when she told me, "I was six, barely seven", I was like, "I have three more hours of this, call for an epidural". But I was glad that he came quickly. All of my labors have been like that, which I just say, I have it bad on the morning sickness, and I'm thankful I have it good on the delivery. And so I won't talk about that because women can, I just can deliver really easily. I have really wide hips, is what I say. Babies can fall out of me when they get ready to come.
Michelle:
40:52 [Inaudible] coming here, sometimes, we take what we can get.
Heather:
Right?
Michelle:
So I'm sorry, how much did Will weigh when he was born?
Heather:
He was 7 pounds, 14 ounces, 21 inches long. And the whole pregnancy my doctor was like, "He's going to be a big baby, because you're measuring so big". And at one point, I was measuring like seven weeks ahead of time, and I was like, "He's just really high”, he rode very high, this whole pregnancy. Even from the very beginning, when I could start feeling anything down there, he was really high. So my doctor was convinced I was going to have a 10 pound baby, but when I did the 35 week ultrasound, he was measuring right on target with his weight. He was my second biggest baby, so I had 2 smaller, and one bigger, so he was kind of right in the middle.
Michelle:
Okay, well, I'm glad everything worked out, and he was healthy. So you also had a book that you recommended for natural childbirth, did you use the same book throughout all your pregnancies, or did you find another one that you'd found that you can resource the reference for Will, or was it the same one?
Heather:
It was the same one, 'Mind Over Labor” by Carl Jones. In the book, he really does give prep work that you do ahead of time, like mental exercises ahead of time to prepare for labor. And so I got it all four times, and read through it four times, and practiced just the relaxation techniques for all four pregnancies. I didn't want to take it for granted that like, "oh, I've done this three times, it's going to be a piece of cake. I was like, "No, I'm 10 years older, and my body changed, so I better read it, and make sure that I am still able to relax.
So when I'm in labor, this time, I actually had a cell phone or, a smartphone. They weren't around 10 years ago, and I just listened to music the whole time and practiced the relaxation techniques that I did through that book, so I always recommend it for women. And I always say, though don't, I was willing to have an epidural. I think it's easy to feel like, oh, I've got to be strong or be a hero. I'm like, "No, you have to do what's best for your body". I needed one at the time. When I called for to get one it was like, "Oh, I need this. I can't go through this another hour or two".
Michelle:
Right, and this is, I still tell people, "I'm just too old go through all this pain. This is like a young woman's game". I mean, I can go through the pregnancy, okay, that's fine, but that delivery. That's just something that one cannot relate to until they've been through, so yeah, whatever works for you. Like I said, the person was like, I'll go as far as I can, and if I need it, it would be there. So I also I want to know, you posted, like towards the end of the pregnancy, though you were doing bi-weekly stress tests. When did that start? Do you remember?
Heather:
35 weeks, and my doctor had me go in twice a week for the non-stress test. And first time, I didn't even know I was going to have on, and you're supposed to eat ahead of time and all that stuff. I didn't know, so it took forever for them to get the baby to wake up because he was in the middle of a good nap, I guess. But one nice thing is I got to know all the nurses, and so I knew them all before I went into labor, which was kind of nice.
Michelle:
Alright, so I'm not at the BI weekly non stress tests per se, but I am going twice a week. They started basically at 32 weeks where I go to the specialist, where they do the ultrasound, look at everything, and then I do non-stress test on Friday.
Heather:
For my anxiety, it helped me to hear him and see him twice a week, so for me, I know that some women think it's overkill and it probably was overkill, but for me where I was mentally and emotionally, it was good to hear him twice a week.
Michelle:
Yeah, I agree.
Heather:
And know he was healthy and still getting good nourishment through my placenta and all that stuff. .
Michelle:
Okay, so I know, again towards, I don't know, I think you were like towards 38 weeks at the end, and you had done all these different things to try speed up labor. So you tried the primrose oil. You did the red raspberry tea.
Heather:
Bounced on the ball for hour, yes, yes, yes, my husband was happy.
Michelle:
Oils and all that, did you actually do acupuncture?
Heather:
I did it twice. I did acupuncture twice. So my husband is a chiropractor and his partner does acupuncture, so I went in twice for acupuncture.
Michelle:
So the acupuncture, you did, you said two times.
Heather:
I did acupuncture twice, yes, and I tried everything. But it turns out, we ended up having a house that we were trying to sell, and we got a cash offer on Thanksgiving. And so I was 38 weeks, we got a cash offer with a closed date of December 10. He was born December 9th. So I'm really glad I didn't have him early because there was just a lot to do that last 10... When you have a 10 day closed date, and we just hadn't fully moved out of our old house. And there's just a lot to do, so I was like, "I'm glad he's inside of me, and I'm not trying to heal from the delivery. That actually worked out good. When it all came down to it, it was good that I didn't have him early.
Michelle:
So you did a move while you were pregnant?
Heather:
We did. We bought a house in June and sold our house. The old house that we had, all three boys shared one room, and so my husband said, "It fit like a glove, and now we have six fingers so we need a bigger house". So we just did not have any room to add a baby into the new house or to the old house. When your kids have one, when they get closer to being out of the house, we're like, "Uh, we can make it work", but then when we thought we were having another one, we're like, "Ah, ah, we need a new house", so yeah, we moved in June. So it was a crazy year, 2019 was pretty crazy.
Michelle:
I bet, so I know when I had my daughter, again, I had midwife, and so she suggested taking the evening primrose 47:22 [Inaudible] similar. Toward the end of my pregnancy into insert it vaginally, is that how you did yours?
Heather:
I did. And again, I had a midwife who told me that with my first one, and basically it just helped soften and prepare the cervix for labor. I mean, clearly I've dilated quickly with all of mine, so I don't know if it was the primrose oil or just the way my body works. I don't know.
Michelle:
What about the red raspberry tea, what does that do? I have never taken that one.
Heather:
Yeah, they said that it just helps to stimulate the uterus and it helps it to contract and the same with the oils that I was using. I used oils that were more meant to contract to the uterus, which I used after labor. It was very helpful for those after labor pains, but yeah, he just wanted to come on his own time.
Michelle:
Okay, so did he immediately, Will after he was born, did he immediately latch on to nursing?
Heather:
He did; we nursed right away. I think he nursed 6 hours. The first 10 hours of his life, 6 of it was nursing. He latched on, it was crazy. It just reminded me, it's just such a miracle that babies come out, and for the most part, they know how to such, right?
Michelle:
Okay, so I know you're still doing the nursing. How is Will sleeping? You're 7 weeks postpartum.
Heather:
Yeah, seven weeks, yeah. He generally goes to sleep between 9 or 10, for the night, he does wake up to feed about 1 or 2, and then again about 4 or 5, but he goes right back to sleep. So I wish that he'd go the whole night, but none of my babies ever slept through the night until they were a little bit older.
Michelle:
Okay, so is he still in the same room with you? Are you room sharing?
Heather:
We're room sharing. He has a pack and play with the high up insertment, the thing that is high up, so he's not weighed down in a pack and play. My back hurts too much at night. I'm too old to bend down and pick him up at 1 in the morning. He needs be high up still. So yeah, he's in our room with us, but he goes right back to sleep. He's really good. He never has... I think one night he stayed up and played in the middle of the night, but for the most part he wakes up eats and goes back to sleep. He’s like every two and a half or three hours, which is about what I feed him every two and a half, three hours; he likes to nurse.
Michelle:
Okay, have you started pumping yet, or are you going to wait until along down the line to start doing that?
Heather:
I have pumped a little. I'm actually having a tubal on February 10. And I need some milk for when I have my surgery, when I have that procedure done, so I've been pumping to prepare for that.
Michelle:
Okay, just out of curiosity, so with your other pregnancies, did you ever pump with them as well to kind of get your husband involved with feeding them as well, or did you just nurse straight from breast most of the time?
Heather:
I nursed, I was a full time mom with my other three, and so my husband worked full time, so I just nursed. I tease him that he never did any middle of the night feedings with me, with the big boys, and so we're making up for it now with Will, like, he gets to be with me in the middle of the night.
Michelle:
Right, yeah, I'm just always, I guess concerned about when the babies go to the bottle, and then you're breastfeeding going to the bottling and going back to the breast. Actually, when I have my 18 month old, they said he had jaundice. I took him to the pediatrician a couple days old, and so they suggested giving him formula. I was just heartbroken, I wasn't prepared, I didn't have a pump or anything. I just thought I was just going to, just nurse him, so I end up getting just a manual one in the interim, before I got the good one. So, he did do the bottle the first couple of days, and it was a struggle getting him back on just doing the breast from the beginning, and we would fight.
Heather:
Will has had 2 bottles. So we've given him two just to try it out, just to make sure that in February, he's not going to 51:43[Inaudible] because I'd be out of commission for a day or so.
Michelle:
Okay, well, hopefully you just like to kind of know what that process is, the tube litigation, because I actually plan on having one as well. So it would help me to know what the process is like. I have asked a couple times, "Is it going to hurt? How many days am I going to be out"? And no one seems to be able to give me like a really good straightforward answer, so as of right now, they just plan on doing it six weeks after I have the baby. They said, "Unless they have a C section, they'll do it at one time".
Heather:
Right, that's my doctor said too. I'll let you know, I've heard... my sister had her tubes, well they removed the tubes now. I don't know if that's the same procedure you're having. But she said that she felt bad for about a day, and then kind of get right back to it. I know that there are people who've said that your period changes after you have one. I actually did some surgery; there are a couple of research articles out there that suggest that it doesn't necessarily affect them having this other cycle. So I'm curious just to see how it will change my body. I mean, our bodies are already changing in our 40s, right? So curious, just to see, but I'll definitely keep you posted.
Michelle:
Okay, yeah, please do. So again, just thank you for coming and sharing your journey and your experience with us. And I hope that you stay on the group and kind of check in every once in a while and again, offer some support, or encouragement, or advice to other women going through it. I wish you the best of luck with Will.
Heather:
Thank you.
Michelle:
Your other boys and your husband and the family. So good luck with everything and take care.
Heather:
Thank you.